Serena Kutchinsky: The Golden Egg That Changed Everything

00:00:01: Hello and welcome to Antique Jewelry Historian the Podcast.

00:00:04: I'm Zuleika Garrosh, jewelry historian

00:00:06: and director

00:00:07: of Parking in Garrosh.

00:00:08: Join me

00:00:09: as we uncover the fascinating stories, remarkable people romance and occasional scandal behind the jewels we love because after all,

00:00:19: jewellery is just a beginning

00:00:24: For my very first episode.

00:00:26: Absolutely delighted to be joined by the author Serena Kaczynski,

00:00:31: whose

00:00:31: extraordinary family history takes us to the world of jewellery diamonds and some rather remarkable characters.

00:00:40: We'll talk about her family fascinating history And the extraordinary world of Kaczynski's Jewellery!

00:00:47: Of course this spectacular jeweled egg.

00:00:53: Hello Serena I'm so excited Well, with us

00:00:58: today.

00:00:59: Thank you for having me.

00:01:00: it's a pleasure to be here in such beautiful surroundings thank

00:01:04: you.

00:01:04: I've been very excited because i read your book um which i admit i saw a lot of being advertised on instagram especially with friend vittoria from Fairhouse, and then I did listen to Cal Walton's If Jewels Could Talk where she did one with you.

00:01:21: Actually i just started reading it and it was really such a wonderful read to have on holidays!

00:01:27: So I did in...I think I finished It In Greece but I started it in Switzerland.

00:01:30: When you read the title Kaczynski's Egg You kind of immediately think its gonna be about The Jewelry And running up To The Egg?

00:01:42: Why did you feel it's so important, to tell the story from?

00:01:46: Poland, for example.

00:01:47: Yes well you know there were points obviously when I was writing the book where i sort of was cursing myself for starting it in eighteen ninety three because obviously like its quite hard to do research from the eighteen nineties There aren't that many sourced materials left particularly documenting the journey my eastern european ancestors took just outside the pale settlement on borders of imperial Russia all over the way to east end London.

00:02:14: so yes question that decision as well myself.

00:02:18: But the reason I did, and I'm glad that I did is because I wanted to really examine an explain where my father's firstly his ambition.

00:02:29: His drive has slightly destructive nature were.

00:02:32: That was kind of forged on The tradition that it was born out off.

00:02:36: You know me in the incredible kind of dogged determination that It takes to lift your family from Your life in Poland And start again you Know In the East End with nothing attitude that we owe them.

00:02:49: You know, I really felt that really poignantly when i was researching it and It Was Only When I Started Doing The Book That I Realised That.

00:02:57: Actually You know, I'd moved to East London in my twenties and was the only member of my family To do so.

00:03:04: And when i did that...I didn't know.

00:03:06: That's where they've been!

00:03:08: So..i had a really visceral feeling Of sort-of walking Where they walked knowing The warehouses In which may have danced At parties over the years.

00:03:18: Maybe this is were They worked Yeah ..I felt their presence with me.

00:03:26: It was context makes it just not just the story of The Egg, It's the rise and fall of the House of Kaczynski as well.

00:03:34: Its a social history about that time you know?

00:03:37: And its an immigrant story which I thought was so interesting if we look at current political landscape and massive prominence in immigration back to this period when there were open borders people coming into England or trying to get America But staying in London because they knew that it was tolerant and, you know.

00:04:00: They could have a good life here but also kick-started the backlash then by nineteen oh five had The Aliens Act come in.

00:04:09: You can see happening mirrored in our politics today which having studied history at university I found really interesting

00:04:16: Just that battle of like some of your answers didn't even speak English how to relearn.

00:04:21: It wasn't just that, it was as you're saying the drive to start with or repair and then suddenly there's like an able make a little tiny shop.

00:04:31: And so by time becomes your grandfather Joe which is now when people from a jewellery historian point of view, Joe works.

00:04:43: probably you know, House of Kaczynski is like it's the sixties.

00:04:46: It's the seventies.

00:04:47: The cool... Absolutely

00:04:49: those are the signature pieces

00:04:51: but must be slightly overshadowed by the egg in a weird way.

00:04:55: that sort of

00:04:55: feeling?

00:04:56: Yeah I think.

00:04:58: well yes no for ages the egg was forgotten and i mean thats part.

00:05:04: why went on this absurd odyssey?

00:05:06: if?

00:05:08: Because, you know my dad did make what is one of the most valuable artworks if not THE most valuable art work to have been made in Britain after The Second World War and yet it had completely lost its place cannon.

00:05:23: So, you know in the jewellery world kind of turned its back on it a bit because of all the trouble that caused not just for The House of Kaczynski but from the firm who was commissioned to make it to Rumen Alexander.

00:05:35: they ceased to exist and Rumen himself carried on making jewellry But he never made another obje d'ar again after the egg.

00:05:43: so there were lots.

00:05:45: I remember going to Goldsmith Hall way back when i first started researching and saying that my dad had made the egg.

00:05:56: And whoever was on reception sort of looked at me, and said oh no he didn't make it to Vrooman did?

00:06:01: I was like well...I didn't even know who D'Vrooman was at that point so i found that really confusing!

00:06:05: Then someone else said Oh That Egg Was A Red Herring!

00:06:09: So there was an interesting attitude to it certainly On The Goldsmith Side Of The Trade..and I felt a desire from its place in history, and that upset me on my father's behalf.

00:06:22: And then I think when it comes to the House of Kaczynski...I still think that period you're referring to is really hot at auctions.

00:06:30: Yeah, right now.

00:06:31: That's the period that you see.

00:06:32: Rihanna wearing Michael B Jordan was wearing a Kaczynski show pod watch the other day it still getting like loads of celebrities coming to.

00:06:40: I mean i would love that Coral Necklace that Rihana is

00:06:43: wearing so stunning!

00:06:44: It's very cool yeah...I felt one of the most fascinating things with this social history of it..i've always been told in various elements of family people could go into shops and you can go, oh I don't know which one.

00:06:58: Don't worry take it home.

00:06:59: we'll send the bill of what you want to bring back that you do not

00:07:02: want.".

00:07:05: And your family clearly had this right at the beginning?

00:07:08: Yes!

00:07:09: That was credited by lots people in old days who knew East End as being a marketing tactic because really got the house of Kaczynski attention.

00:07:24: great-grandpa Hirsch at the kitchen table repairing the watches and silver candlesticks of fellow Jews who'd made The Journey with him, you know?

00:07:32: And they had nothing apart from Great-Grandma Leia.

00:07:35: Who was quite clever!

00:07:36: She sewn her jewels into the skirts of her clothes for The Journey... ...and I always liked to think she kept that a secret from Hirsch because apparently he was sort of, y'know… …I don't know – bit more wet than her.

00:07:47: So, ya know—she's been talked about as being very like the woman behind the throne.

00:07:51: kinda thing to think that she kind of kept that secret knowing he might have squandered it on Root or something.

00:07:57: And so when they arrived in the East End, They were saved from destitution by her having these jewels sewn into their skirts and then his son Moshe took over.

00:08:09: Moshe was a very religious man you know?

00:08:11: Very much a respected figure in community but didn't really had business drive.

00:08:17: I mean wanted do well But wasn't ever going.

00:08:20: take You know up to the next gear.

00:08:23: So, yes kind of enter Joe The youngest son which is unusual to be the one that inherits the business.

00:08:30: Apparently according to family folklore He was left unnamed for the first kind of year his life because everyone's just too busy and you Know didn't get round to it so he would just baby.

00:08:41: And whether that was the reason that he was determined to prove Everyone wrong?

00:08:44: but yes?

00:08:45: He turned out to have a really sort of unique blend of creative flair and genius you see in those designs and also, an absolute wheeler dealer to his core.

00:08:56: I mean, cut him when he was the East End even when he wasn't a sort of peak pocket inside with a gun.

00:09:06: So all his suits were made of the gun pocket and the gun was apparently given to him by the craze.

00:09:11: who are customers when they were in East End, so yeah I know you've got that really interesting kind hybrid of east end criminality market traditions.

00:09:23: there's certainly tradition for keeping things off books in various ways which is inherited down generations.

00:09:32: But so Moshe had started because he was so religious.

00:09:36: He naturally placed his faith in the community.

00:09:39: So, he'd said to a few people you know brides-to-be Take these engagement rings home You know take a whole tray?

00:09:45: Take a bag show them to your other half And come back and let us know which one you want.

00:09:50: and they started doing that and according To my sources no one else with No other jeweler was doing it.

00:09:56: at that time Kaczynski became The place that you could go and That's how they built their name up.

00:10:02: funnily enough, I was doing some research yesterday for a column i'm writing for the Jewish Chronicle and I was trying to get hold of a rabbi.

00:10:09: And I sent an email to the admin office for a shul... Anyway!

00:10:14: The woman on the desk replies to me.

00:10:16: she's like oh I'll pass it to the Rabbi.

00:10:17: but by the way my grandmother you know they bought there-and my mother all their engagement rings came from Kaczynski and said ''And so

00:10:25: funny!''.

00:10:25: They always told me the story that they were allowed.

00:10:28: I

00:10:30: always thought it was just maybe just Safa's, because there is always a saying that you know Safas chews you.

00:10:37: But i think makes so much more romantic knowing the ring or whatever jewel chooses you as one who can't stop thinking about.

00:10:46: Yes exactly!

00:10:48: And with jewelry must be in most extraordinary childhoods to growing up all those designs and jewelry.

00:10:56: Were they ever at home?

00:10:59: So you saw them there?

00:11:01: I mean, we were in the shop a lot.

00:11:03: The shop was like sort of second home or playground bit.

00:11:07: You know...I always joke that other people's parents taught to write and read.

00:11:13: My mum certainly did but my dad taught me about precious stones before i could do either.

00:11:18: so he had me sitting on his lap you know, with his jeweler's loop kind of squashed in front my eye teaching me the names and all different stones.

00:11:28: And that was amazing!

00:11:29: I can still hear this sort tinkle as they poured out a paper packet onto his desk then get magnifying glass to reel off each one.

00:11:40: So, yeah.

00:11:41: I mean it was you know and then we'd go play in the designer's office And really annoy them because obviously We take all their pencils and blunt or their pencils but It was incredible to have that You know in front of us?

00:11:52: And i always remember as a child being very amused by The fact that the Sultan of Brunei had two wives Because In the designers' Office there were pictures Of both of the Wives wearing Kaczynski jewels.

00:12:04: You Know when your young Child like why has he got Two wives?

00:12:08: Obviously, you know understand now but yes and there'd be cocktail parties which we were occasionally allowed to stay up for and got a new frock.

00:12:16: And it was all very exciting!

00:12:17: But also when you grow up... When your child that's what will You know, that was just normal.

00:12:24: So it's only in retrospect when you are an adult and when you don't actually inhabit the world anymore I suppose... ...that you can look back and go.

00:12:31: wow yes!

00:12:32: That WAS really privileged And THAT WAS a kind of quite extraordinary and odd childhood.

00:12:40: But at the time It was just you know normal..you know?

00:12:43: ..I used to get teased by my classmates At primary school because all my pencil case and everything My mum would just nip out to buy it in Harrods, because the shop was so close to Harrod's.

00:12:55: So Pritzic once had like a Harrod sticker on basically and then I got absolutely ripped at school for that!

00:13:05: Yeah i felt when I was reading the book...I feel like I wanted to give you a hug quite a few times..because there is....you talk about privilege as if its really really guilty thing to have And something that resonated with me alot probably why I felt it like reading a parallel life to me.

00:13:25: And I'm not trying to compare in too much because every child is completely different, but it's that thing of... Every parent wants the best for their child and i think there's something rather wonderful about reading about.

00:13:38: you know your mother wearing fur coats?

00:13:40: There was all this glamour which just sounds so wonderfully exciting at the same time!

00:13:49: about that generation before, a bit more of gangster sort.

00:13:53: I don't know.

00:13:53: it just sounds really you know amazing but i totally resonated to the little girl's guilt because l lost my father when he was about twenty four.

00:14:01: and its that thing where anyone goes.

00:14:05: oh well your father is this or womanized or any kind of conversation...I dont want to know!

00:14:11: Because for me..he was the best thing in world.

00:14:15: so there something rather You know I hugely admire you to read, write this book and sort of almost stop from scratch.

00:14:25: And do feel like at the end of the book?

00:14:27: Do still...I mean obviously love your father but..you can still defend him if that makes sense.

00:14:34: It's really interesting i think.

00:14:36: being a journalist It's not quite disassociation, but it is a kind of slight ability to separate yourself Emotionally from the story because you know your.

00:14:50: Your job in telling the story.

00:14:52: You're responsibility Is actually To be as objective as you can and obviously that's really hard when its own family story And also I understand for my mother My siblings they aren't journalists writers, so they don't see... They haven't got that kind of disconnection from it.

00:15:09: But my job is to be as objective as I can while still telling the story through my eyes and trying to be fair and also honest about people.

00:15:21: So for example you know i write about my father kind of spiralling into drug use when things get bad for him both financially and emotionally.

00:15:31: towards that some of my family have said, oh why did you do that?

00:15:36: Why did you put that in expose him in that way.

00:15:39: And it's like well because that's what happened and also because it's relatable.

00:15:46: um and I don't judge him for it You know i just Like.

00:15:51: That is the story and It's What Happened.

00:15:53: and Yes!

00:15:54: It Is Sad In A Way But We All Do Things you know, that we aren't proud of or they're the best for us and we all make bad decisions.

00:16:05: So... We are who we are!

00:16:06: And part of the book was really getting to know my dad because like you lost him when I was twenty and so i never knew he as an adult..and I felt quite viscerally when writing it.

00:16:18: there were things where I would ask him now but actually its not Standing in judgment because you know when your younger, uh You see the world and much more binary terms.

00:16:29: You know black-and-white once you're older?

00:16:31: You know you've made like I said We've all made well most of us have made some bad decisions or done things we're not proud Of or you know appreciate the whole kind of.

00:16:39: you know many shades of gray of life And That gives you the ability to see more nuance.

00:16:45: so yeah i would have really liked to have a conversation with him about what happened.

00:16:51: But whenever I kind of got to that bit in my head, then i'd be like you know but if he hadn't died the story wouldn't be the story that it is and I wouldn't Be able to tell It In The Way That I Am And In A Way That Helps You Know.

00:17:03: Like Obviously I Wish That What Had Happened Hadn'T Happened.

00:17:07: But Things Like You Know For Years After He Died In Fact Until I Started Writing The Book I Never Knew The Details Of The Car Crash That Claimed His Life.

00:17:18: I'd never wanted to know.

00:17:20: You know, he didn't change the outcome did it?

00:17:22: He was dead and i had also assumed because he was in a period of his life where he had a different girlfriend every five seconds.

00:17:30: You know, I had the same boyfriend since i was sixteen and I would see him every fortnight And every time it turned up.

00:17:35: basically there'd be another woman that's like... But at the end you're just like look dad!I don't actually want to see them and so have an other awkward conversation.. I really just like spend some time with you.

00:17:45: Yeah yeah Like your'e the one I love we dont have this.

00:17:49: oh were on a double date anyway

00:17:52: Even if I remember correctly when he died in the car crash and your mother tells you on the phone, he was with two American women.

00:18:04: And it's that thing of like more woman.

00:18:07: who are these?

00:18:08: Well

00:18:09: see what I thought.

00:18:12: But when I did look into it, obviously.

00:18:14: I found out that Terri the American woman who tragically died with him and her friend Bunny survived.

00:18:21: but Terry my father were really close friends And actually she loved him and Her family loved Him.

00:18:28: and Actually you know i've sort of didn't feel bad for not finding out sooner?

00:18:32: But i'm Really glad i Did find Out and make contact With them.

00:18:35: i mean those emails whether some Of The strangest emails i've ever had to send.

00:18:39: You Know try To track Those people Down and Be like.

00:18:42: I think maybe you know your dad and my mom kind of, we have this really sad connection.

00:18:48: But I spoke to Terry's husband and my father, it turned out they'd been friends for a decade.

00:18:55: My dad had been over-to-stay with them multiple times.

00:18:58: They've all played tennis together in Antigua at this tennis tournament where he sponsored every year And there were really close!

00:19:05: Her daughter has the picture on her bedside table of my Dad & Mum taken one night before they died together Even though you know I was worried as well about them reading the book and me writing.

00:19:23: Like I wrote the car crash and in a weird way i wrote it in quite like graphic detail, But I mean, they seem to have been quite happy with it.

00:19:53: And she's kind of honoured in being... Yeah and we.. It was really wonderful to speak to them.

00:20:00: They're incredible.

00:20:01: so now i feel like I've got some sort of surrogate family In California.

00:20:05: So

00:20:06: silver lining is there?

00:20:07: Do you feel if your father read this book What do think he would have thought

00:20:13: about that?

00:20:14: I'd be chuffed.

00:20:15: That wrote a book you know, like oh dad.

00:20:21: Because when he died the egg was still... He was still really proud, and that was really nice.

00:20:27: I was again kind of quite trepidatious about what i would find out you know?

00:20:32: Was he really brow-beaten by What happened?

00:20:35: did he feel That he was a failure because it's always when You love someone thats Quite hard to hear.

00:20:40: but generally what people said is actually no...you Know..he never cared About money enough....that was part Of the problem in terms of his businesses.

00:20:47: But for him also It was The creative achievement And he was all just Really Proud that he had made this remarkable thing, you know.

00:20:56: And it was in the Guinness Book of Records and there's a funny story about one of his craftsmen who worked with him.

00:21:03: after the house of Kaczynski was sold at Hattengarden they all got really drunk.

00:21:08: on Christmas Eve One Year My dad happened to have a stash of the Guinnes book of records With The Egg In It.

00:21:13: He got out into the pub but everyone was passing around calling him the egg man.

00:21:22: Yeah, I think he'd be pretty chuffed to be honest.

00:21:25: And how would you feel about the portrayal of him?

00:21:27: I don't

00:21:28: know!

00:21:30: He comes across as an anti-hero but a human one and hopefully somehow endearing despite doing some things that are not making some poor life choices.

00:21:48: The

00:21:48: fact your father sort of started that interest in pink diamonds, which I thought was really interesting.

00:21:54: Was anyone at the time doing pink diamonds?

00:21:57: No they weren't.

00:21:58: so yeah... The Pink Diamond story runs kind of concurrent to the egg in the Kaczynski story, and I think it's really fascinating actually.

00:22:05: And i got really into even the geology you know because actually um The reason that pink diamonds are the world's rarest diamonds is That with all...I mean correct me if I'm wrong but With all the rest of the coloured diamonds yellow blue etc..That occurs when an element gets trapped In the carbon structure.

00:22:21: But with pink diamonds there's no elements.

00:22:23: so No one really knows.

00:22:25: You know for years?Noone could figure out.

00:22:29: As far as I know what scientists now think is it's a Pressure on the carbon structure.

00:22:35: so has to be a certain point of pressure before It cracks.

00:22:39: if it endures, it turns.

00:22:40: It pink And for the conditions, that to happen are obviously incredibly rare.

00:22:45: So prior to The Argyle Mine being discovered which it was first...the First Hint came in seventy-nine and then opened in eighty three.

00:22:54: It's in Western Australia at the outback of the Kimberley region with loads of red rock an area owned by Aborigines traditionally or is owned traditional owners of the land, actually.

00:23:10: We should be careful how we say that!

00:23:13: Yes so basically until that point there were no diamonds in Australia and no one really believed at first that they were diamonds in australia And then it turned out there weren't just diamonds in astralia In fact There was the world's largest supply Of pink diamonds because prior to that Pink Diamonds would obviously pop up every now-and-then.

00:23:32: They tended to be large

00:23:37: Probably Russian.

00:23:39: Yeah, or South Africa and the gold-handed... And India in The Gold-Handed Diamonds.

00:23:43: but they were very, very rare.

00:23:44: you know there's the odd one on the crown jewels kind of vibe.

00:23:47: um and this was different because the Argyle diamonds are small But their colour range from traditional bubblegum pink all the way up to rose violet hue.

00:23:59: In fact They had to create new categories of colour Because it'd never been anything like before.

00:24:03: It was extraordinary.

00:24:05: But obviously, they had a bit of PR problem on their hands.

00:24:08: And this was before the social media prior to internet pretty much So.

00:24:13: at this point The main supply of what is called pink diamonds were actually brown or champagne diamonds and They tended be used in industry for cutting For tools that have very little value.

00:24:26: There's lots of snobbery around it.

00:24:29: So, our guy all wanted a vehicle to publicize their pink diamonds that they'd found.

00:24:36: And there was a diamond dealer the Vayner's.

00:24:38: Richard Vayner particularly in Hattengarden who my father had started both working with and also socializing a bit, much to my mother's chagra because the Vayner Brothers were younger.

00:24:50: They weren't married they didn't have children.

00:24:52: at this point you know we're in existence.

00:24:54: My dad had kind of typical mid-life crisis where he started drinking and partying more hanging out with them.

00:25:01: Didn't want hangout with old boring married mates anymore.

00:25:06: Luckily things are different these days.

00:25:08: but So that was all happening, so he was hanging out with the vainers a lot and the vainer's were then like oh why don't you meet up with Argyle?

00:25:16: because they are one of our Argyles dealers in Britain.

00:25:19: And their father Milosh had been one of first people to ever go to the Argyl mine.

00:25:24: They were very close to Argyll And they effectively, you know.

00:25:29: They will take the credit rightly so for introducing Kaczynski to Argyle.

00:25:33: and then my father was already working on the egg design.

00:25:37: that was all ready in motion.

00:25:39: but Argyl came along said look we'll give two million dollars worth of pink stones put into this egg with which twenty four thousand ended up in there.

00:25:49: And my dad selected every single one by hand, you know those incredible kind of scenes that were described to me as My Dad sitting with Richard and Martin Vayner offices on Greville Street in Hattengarden, and them just sitting there for hours sort of making piles trying to pick out the most perfect stones from the pile.

00:26:09: Just piles and piles of big diamonds!

00:26:12: And I think they kept running out and had to buy more...and you know my dad was using every last penny that The Business Had unbeknowned his father at that point To get this project over-the line which is when things start getting a bit nail biting.

00:26:25: But yes, so you know our guiles kind of imperative for being involved in the project was slightly different to ours.

00:26:31: They didn't really need To sell it not in the immediacy anyway and they wanted the press.

00:26:38: So you know, obviously not in any way their fault.

00:26:42: Definitely my father's fault because he got swept away.

00:26:45: but one of the reasons people say that the egg didn't sell was because it got overexposed and typically in jewellery as I'm told discretion is key.

00:26:56: when high net worth people buy high value items they don't want people to know about it because obviously that sort of advertising are gonna get robbed And also it just takes away the kind of exclusivity.

00:27:08: Um, and the egg got so much press that kind of you know The feeling that you'd be owning something That no one else has or No One Else Has Ever Heard Of.

00:27:18: That Got Diminished And They've Never Done That Before You Know.

00:27:21: they'd sold many obje d'art for hundreds of thousands of pounds and all Predominantly Sold Middle East Some to Rich Americans.

00:27:31: My Dad Just Imagined Salt in a Brunei Would Pretty Much Snap Up the Egg As he Had but pretty much snapped up everything else.

00:27:38: But Stalton and Brunei did not like the fact, I'm told that of all the publicity...

00:27:44: Yeah!

00:27:45: And why should it be in his book?

00:27:46: Isn't there an opening scene for him on doing that TV interview...?

00:27:50: On Wogan?

00:27:51: Yes!

00:27:52: ...and getting really excited about this egg you

00:27:56: know?!

00:27:57: Actually i do go YouTube to watch it.

00:28:01: It's really, really sweet to watch actually because you can see he is sort of nervous but at the same time really proud.

00:28:09: Yes!

00:28:10: But then it came up with a price.

00:28:12: I mean that must have been like oh excuse my language in the whole shape God You just said now are going to try and sell us at this price?

00:28:21: That what happened so originally?

00:28:24: well The marketing materials say about five million dollars but thats three million pounds i think terrible.

00:28:31: The story my mother's told me is that originally the egg was meant to be sold for about three million, you know or five tops and then-and that that's any of their business really, they were commissioned to make it.

00:28:47: But later on when the price suddenly goes up seven million De Vroomen thinks he should be getting more share of the profits and that is where part of there disagreement came from.

00:28:57: but yes so the story goes.

00:28:59: my dad was basically doorstep by a TV reporter who had heard a whisper in the jewelry trade.

00:29:05: this massive egg has been created before anyone started leaking out and my dad got cornered.

00:29:16: out of nowhere, just kind of ad-libbed this seven million.

00:29:19: Now apparently my mum was tugging on his sleeve and I shut up Paul.

00:29:24: but either he said it because you wanted to drive the price up or we just plucked it out a thin air.

00:29:30: But anyway once that seven million is out there It's no getting away from it.

00:29:34: And yes on Wogan He makes a joke with Terry going oh were open to offers Terry would do offer six point nine nine nine million?

00:29:44: you know, with lots of bravado at that point.

00:29:47: And

00:29:47: is there also the moment where it's suddenly not working?

00:29:50: Yes!

00:29:52: The bad secret... It was interesting when I first started writing about the egg and thinking about it.. ..I kind of knew something wrong That there were a bad thing for various reasons.

00:30:07: But one reason was that i knew There had been Something Wrong With It Because what we were told as children was that it ended up in the Kaczynski workshop, and there wasn't enough money to fix it.

00:30:20: And then had just been taken and

00:30:21: disappeared.".

00:30:23: So sort of knew there was a mechanical problem but obviously I'd no idea at the extent of it.

00:30:28: The truth is until now...it never worked!

00:30:33: My dad's eyes were bigger than the technological reality of the time, you know.

00:30:39: And he was so intent that the whole thing had to be made from as pure a gold as possible –so eighteen carat– and it had to go through the assay office and it has to be hallmarked properly….

00:30:49: So in order for that happen no part could be brass but obviously you know, eighteen-carat gold is heavy and dense... So trying kind of open their doors when they opened then lift up.

00:31:03: So it was like a double motion, had to open the doors and then lift it up.

00:31:07: And basically no motor was powerful enough to do that.

00:31:11: Also you've got team of very highly skilled goldsmiths in enamelers and engravers working on this egg.

00:31:18: The craftsmanship is impeccable incredible but they were not engineers!

00:31:23: You know?

00:31:23: The wonderful quote from Gerald who was the foreman at the Kaczynski workshop Who ended up eventually having to fix it.

00:31:30: He said something as if we were, it's like asking a bunch of goldsmiths to fix the car.

00:31:37: You know?

00:31:37: We're really good with gold but we don't know what to do with tyres.

00:31:41: and you know was that really sort square peg round hole?

00:31:44: they did have people who had worked on mechanical items.

00:31:47: But we are talking music box style here not massive scale state-of-the-art electronics.

00:31:56: So yes I mean That is another reason for problem between my father into Vrooman sour.

00:32:03: basically, was that yeah they just couldn't get it to work.

00:32:06: They could get the inside turn around but they didn't have doors open and they would kind of judder into a hole in jam.

00:32:13: so when there went on wogen I mean you'll see.

00:32:15: actually if you watch this egg is never closed.

00:32:17: even then its rotations are bit judgery.

00:32:20: at least their doors were opened.

00:32:23: It's just

00:32:29: even like little details about the portraits where from your magazine and things.

00:32:33: I think there is obviously clearly slightly run out of money in cut corners, but the craftsmanship the years many, many years.

00:32:53: I think you do mention it in like whether he would be allowed to do it now or maybe there'd be so much copyright but they're Disney characters?

00:33:01: Yes and don't that you were able to do at then!

00:33:02: To be honest He just did it.

00:33:04: So yes made Tinkerbells Gold Tinkerbell figurines out of gold and precious gems.

00:33:12: And then also the Simpsons characters, a whole set for The Children Of A Middle Eastern Sultan Orshake that are probably still in a palace now.

00:33:21: but you know there were no pictures No internet at that time.

00:33:24: uh...and

00:33:25: yes I mean i spoke to the goldsmith who made those.

00:33:28: he was like.

00:33:28: well we did not about copyright it is much more over Wild Wild West.

00:33:33: they would constantly taking jewellery through customs I mean, all the time which obviously led my dad into several sticky situations.

00:33:42: You know there was a time with The Geneva Shop when they took quarter of million pounds worth of stock over from London and normally my Dad would kind take that himself then sort not declare it.

00:33:53: but this time for whatever reason he gave to third party big financial blow because obviously that was a lot of stock and then, he couldn't go to the police.

00:34:06: Because you know...he wasn't filled in the right forms.

00:34:09: so.. He was a bit hamstrung.

00:34:11: So they got their friend's wife over.

00:34:16: She spoke French I think she went but she tracked down the thieves to this sort of back alley, indoor market in Geneva.

00:34:25: In a site that's very far away from the posh watch shops and jewellers where The Kaczynski Shop was.

00:34:31: And she found it got my dad on the phone.

00:34:35: then they wanted a price That is far too high.

00:34:39: basically My Dad wouldn't agree to it.

00:34:40: apparently he said down the phone Mary why don't you just take the jewelry run?

00:34:44: And she was like, not bloody chance Paul.

00:34:47: I'm going to end up in the

00:34:47: river.".

00:34:48: You know?

00:34:48: These are gangsters!

00:34:49: Are you

00:34:50: crazy?!

00:34:51: You lunatic... So yeah so that had been written off.

00:34:54: and then obviously later when he kind of got banged-up at Bahrain prison because he stupidly left some hash on his pocket cause it's always smoking weed after a girlfriend left him it got bad.

00:35:11: um so he had some you know always had.

00:35:17: i mean I found it sort of vaguely endearing at the time that there was always some hash and some diamonds in his suit pocket basically as you do.

00:35:24: but he forgot to take the hash out and was going through customs got in trouble for they found stuff in his bags he hadn't declared.

00:35:30: then they searched him, then they found the hash.

00:35:32: And then he was really in trouble because obviously they have a very strong still-to-this day zero tolerance porosity.

00:35:38: So Then He Found Himself In This Prison Anna, who was his ex-girlfriend by then but also is still in business partner.

00:35:45: She got the phone call you know he's one phone call and she said what on earth why the hell are you imprisoning Bahrain?

00:35:53: Luckily they agent that they worked with over there were selling plans to sell some jewellery for their whole family.

00:35:59: so my dad was in there about a week people being taken out of court yard executed I mean, he couldn't ever you know.

00:36:07: He was banned from Bahrain which is obviously a bit of blow for business but in his kind of classic fashion Obviously turned it into some kind of you know comic misadventure and an escapade.

00:36:17: Yeah But your like dad how many scrapes are you gonna get through, you know.

00:36:22: I would have like absolutely gone pale but somehow he knew we could get himself by his way out of trouble.

00:36:27: i suppose

00:36:28: there's a wonderful bit right at the beginning...i think it was in the sixties or seventies where they've got this model and she's picking up with her feet because that's like the million pound table something turning

00:36:42: into Christmas tree.

00:36:43: so there are some amazing like pathe news footage that i found when i was researching one say is pretty sexist, actually.

00:36:51: I mean part of me was absolutely cringy watching it but you know whatever of its time i suppose.

00:36:57: and there's a woman she's called Eve obviously because it's Christmas and they've got her in some kind of taffeta dress and she's out in the shop like this standing on top for table and then all these men in suits including my grandfather he's in the video are like popping diamond jewelry onto sort of every part of her onto her toes wrapping necklaces around her bracelets round to arms around her and then they kind of dress their all up, turn into a human twinkling Christmas tree.

00:37:24: And them picker-up in this doorman carries her locks are in the safe!

00:37:29: I mean, it was obviously a sort of light hearted news item.

00:37:35: It's the kind of multi-million pound jewellery equivalent to a YouTube stunt today at Prank.

00:37:41: Yeah but i thought is also wonderful.

00:37:44: and actually my final question that I have to just ask you because I've always been obsessed with tiaras But I haven't seen Kaczynski do a tiara did they?

00:37:54: Oh, yes we did actually.

00:37:56: We didn't make loads of them but we did famously Make One to Order for a seven-year old and Middle Eastern princess And apparently the commission came in typically late.

00:38:06: I mean that was signature.

00:38:07: my father like you know stop everything Stop what your doing?

00:38:10: We've got do this!

00:38:10: You gotta turn it around.

00:38:11: They had five days and they worked through The night.

00:38:14: there were forty goldsmiths In the workshop those day But yeah they shifted basically Worked Through The Night by the skin of their absolute teeth.

00:38:25: You know, they met the deadline which they always would.

00:38:27: I mean The workshop was an amazing place and we're really lucky that Peter Stein who's a son of Nat Stein Who is one of the original founders of it?

00:38:36: So it's Len Sanet in nat Stein who ran the workshop through a kind of handshake agreement with my grandfather That lasted fifty years.

00:38:44: you know They had no contracts nothing but they only made.

00:38:46: they only make jewelry for Kaczynski And that was how he went.

00:38:51: Yeah He's still around, and we are good friends.

00:38:55: And he really helped me out with the book.

00:38:57: so amazing.

00:38:59: If you need a piece of Kaczynski jewelry verifying or valuation or verification, he can smell it and know its Kaczynski like look at from afar and they'll know immediately if is or isn't.

00:39:12: It's amazing!

00:39:12: Yeah

00:39:13: incredible but thank-you very much Serena.

00:39:17: I highly recommend this book.

00:39:21: many other people will enjoy it because as much I did.

00:39:25: It's an emotional read and the whole thing about, we've talked about the trust, the termination and ego you can even add in is a wonderful read.

00:39:40: thank-you so much!

00:39:41: My absolute pleasure.

00:39:42: thanks for having me.

00:39:42: i really enjoyed.

00:39:45: I hope you enjoyed this episode.